Carl it is sometimes a thankless job but you guys did an awesome job and some things are just beyond your control. We've lost members after they have helped organize a STAR from the stress and comments from others.Denise Tosh may be right it was Staunton, I do recall going to one of the local coffee shops down the street for a light breakfast several mornings.
I just wanted to take a moment to comment back on a few years ago not sure which STAR but it was back east some where when the breakfast was NOT included in the hotel price and the restaurant was not prepared and never for the entire week manage to get enough staff on site to be able to handle the morning traffic of folk that came in to order and PAY for a breakfast. You went in knowing that it was going to be an hour or more to get a simple breakfast or you went somewhere else.
This year the first day I told them that I couldn't eat what they offered due to the seasonings and would it be too much trouble to just get a simple bowl of oatmeal and after the 2nd day they would smile at me and ask if I wanted my oatmeal :) I know that a lot of folks would want something more substantial but that along with the juice and generally fruit or something else was always plenty for me to get me going.
In Avon, the "free beer" was a 6-pack of normal Budweiser for each room and lots of beer was left unopened. I know mine was.Must have been a different Avon, maybe 2000 or 2006, I was there in 2012 and don't recall the free beer, but had heard about that from other members, something our hosts (RIP Lynn Weas) at the Christie Lodge did.
Some people gripe about the lack of food or minimal food at the Welcome Reception but honestly, it's a difficult task to know how much food to put out. I never go to that reception thinking the finger food will be a substitute for a real, sitdown dinner!
One of the difficult tasks with STAR is that it's most often a different hotel each time so the idea of "making it better next year" doesn't easily transfer to another hotel with totally different management. The Christie Lodge in Avon has been the only facility used more than once as far as I know.
And I agree with Bob C/Louisiana that La Crosse ranks right up there at or near the top! :-)
..........Hounding members all week did not produce more sells and people were ready to strangle the volunteers selling the night of the banquet as we had already asked them 20 times that week to buy tickets. Honestly, it sucked.
Among my crowd the raffle bike is a big deal. I think that tickets sales depend a lot on the excitement level of the raffle bike.
I.e. new/or updated and popular in sales and media. Like the Africa Twin. The Versys not so much. Would like to know the ticket numbers for these two models.
Pat if the bolded is really true, that should be published with the raffle details. I don't think it always applies but I have heard that from several other members, usually people on the EC or those involved with the raffle. I can tell you that is certainly not well known among the average members.Among my crowd the raffle bike is a big deal. I think that tickets sales depend a lot on the excitement level of the raffle bike.
I.e. new/or updated and popular in sales and media. Like the Africa Twin. The Versys not so much. Would like to know the ticket numbers for these two models.
We sold 12,000 dollars worth of tickets for the Honda, but it had a cost of just over 11,000 dollars. The Verseys cost about 7500 and ticket sales were just a little short of that...haven’t seen final numbers on it yet.
The one thing that everyone needs to know and understand is that they are not “stuck” with taking that bike. The dealers that we have worked with in the past have always said that they would be willing to work something out if the winner wanted something different.
I’ll also point out that in the survey for Colorado Springs we got several comments about the raffle bike.....most were that we needed something that was smaller, less expensive, and more of a Sport Touring bike than the Africa Twin. The Verseys LT was all of those things. Yet we sold a lot less tickets....go figure.
Come on guys, you have got to know with out being told that dealers take bikes as trade ins. New or used you can trade a bike to a dealer.Yes Jon that is true. But we are talking about two different things, exchanging a prize for something else versus trading in something. Taking the new bike and using as a trade in is FAR DIFFERENT than the option to put the winnings toward a different bike. For me to trade in something, first I must own it - YES?????
Yep, pretty shocked that anybody sees them as the same thing.Come on guys, you have got to know with out being told that dealers take bikes as trade ins. New or used you can trade a bike to a dealer.Yes Jon that is true. But we are talking about two different things, exchanging a prize for something else versus trading in something. Taking the new bike and using as a trade in is FAR DIFFERENT than the option to put the winnings toward a different bike. For me to trade in something, first I must own it - YES?????
The one thing that everyone needs to know and understand is that they are not “stuck” with taking that bike. The dealers that we have worked with in the past have always said that they would be WILLING TO WORK SOMETHING OUT if the winner wanted something different.
Well after all that - I'd just like to pipe in and say that I agree with Pat regarding the fact that the raffle bike needs to be for the whole club, not just STAR attendees.A few points
Can you do some kind of online raffle system for the tickets, etc? Make it a year-long fund-raiser and sell tickets non-stop from the day after STAR, until the next STAR when the bike is awarded.
If its online, you can advertise the raffle in STAReview everytime it comes out, or even send emails on a monthly basis inviting people to click a link an buy another ticket.
Also, you could include a Poll with 3 options attached to the raffle, and the more tickets you buy, the more votes you get on what the actual bike should be. That way the majority of ticket buyers have some say in what the prize ends up being. If you don't like the bike - you should have bought more tickets and thus submitted more votes.
Since I have an FJR as my primary Sport-Tourer, let me be the first to submit a vote for the Honda 250L Rally as a raffle bike next year. MRSP only $6,200 with ABS.
I'm really not sure what Pat meant with the statement about making it for all MSTA, and not just STAR. He said
"At this point I can’t imagine getting rid of the bike raffle, but somehow we need to make it an MSTA bike raffle and not just a STAR bike raffle. We need to engage many more members than just those attending STAR."
Also you must consider that the last 4 bikes were won by attendees. LolWhen the majority of tickets, or close to it, are being sold at STAR, it only makes sense that the winner is likely to be there. Seems like we had a lot of years when the winner was not there, and those years correspond to the years when more tickets were sold outside of STAR. All of that is pretty easy to understand.
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If we're struggling to make money on the bike raffle, something needs to change.
I wish there was a way to verify this..... it is my guess that the majority of tickets sold pre-STAR the last few years were to people planning to attend STAR. But that’s just a guess on my part.
We know for sure that last year the sales AT STAR were 2X what we sold pre-STAR.
I wish there was a way to verify this..... it is my guess that the majority of tickets sold pre-STAR the last few years were to people planning to attend STAR. But that’s just a guess on my part.Just curious, are these number of tickets or ticket revenue? Because I figure many of the pre-STAR tickets were sold at a discount($8 vs. $10), so ticket revenue may be a better measure.
We know for sure that last year the sales AT STAR were 2X what we sold pre-STAR.
Just curious, are these number of tickets or ticket revenue? Because I figure many of the pre-STAR tickets were sold at a discount($8 vs. $10), so ticket revenue may be a better measure.
One thing I haven't seen discussed is the Aerostitch suit (2nd prize, need to be present) I PRESUME the club pays for that, somewhere in the 800-1000 range. Would dropping that be something we consider, to help break even or make more?
OK, that is really good to know. I think I have the solution!!! We need to find a sponsor to donate the bike. Simple - right. 8) :trink39: :trink39: :clap: ;D
You presume wrong.. :) . Aerostitch DONATES the certificate every year. The tire set certificates are also donated.
OK, that is really good to know. I think I have the solution!!! We need to find a sponsor to donate the bike. Simple - right. 8) :trink39: :trink39: :clap: ;D
You presume wrong.. :) . Aerostitch DONATES the certificate every year. The tire set certificates are also donated.
Now cut that out. After your posting the the numbers, makes me wonder if I need to change my by-line. :o ;) :-XOK, that is really good to know. I think I have the solution!!! We need to find a sponsor to donate the bike. Simple - right. 8) :trink39: :trink39: :clap: ;D
You presume wrong.. :) . Aerostitch DONATES the certificate every year. The tire set certificates are also donated.
Anyone know of a slightly used BMW that is available? LOL 😂
You presume wrong.. :) . Aerostitch DONATES the certificate every year. The tire set certificates are also donated.
Somehow it seems clear to me. When the tickets were $5 each and every member was mailed tickets the bike made money.
Then the tickets were raised to $8/$10 and no tickets were mailed to the members and 2 out of 3 years the bike looses money.
Sending out postcard “reminders” to encourage people to both purchase raffle tickets, and to attend STAR (put pictures of the bike and/or the STAR location on them) is something we can look at too. Postcards are much less expensive to mail out, we can get bulk rates, and it can be easily automated so that it takes little or no labor on the part of anyone in the club to get them sent out.
Thanks for the info Pat, I had never heard anything about Aerostitch donating that prize, so I wasn't going to assume they did. Nice to know we have some really good partners in the industry.
Just curious, are these number of tickets or ticket revenue? Because I figure many of the pre-STAR tickets were sold at a discount($8 vs. $10), so ticket revenue may be a better measure.
One thing I haven't seen discussed is the Aerostitch suit (2nd prize, need to be present) I PRESUME the club pays for that, somewhere in the 800-1000 range. Would dropping that be something we consider, to help break even or make more?
Answers....
Dollars,,,because that’s what Tim can give us. This year was the FIRST year that the sales at STAR exceeeded the pre-STAR sales. Last year it was close to even. But the year before, and all of the prior years that we have numbers on, it was HUGELY n favor of PRE-STAR. Sometimes as much as 10:1.
I did unintentionally misrepresent the actual ratio of pre-STAR to STAR sales. I went back an rechecked the numbers Tim sent out last week. The ratio was smaller, but we did have $1400 MORE in sales AT STAR, then we did in sales prior to STAR......that’s not an additional 1400 in sales at STAR, it’s that we matched the pre-sales dollars and then did 1400 dollars more. (I hope that is clear). At 10.00 per ticket that’s 100-140 more tickets being sold during STAR then were sold in all of the months prior.
You presume wrong.. :) . Aerostitch DONATES the certificate every year. The tire set certificates are also donated.
The only two years that we have lost money on the raffle were 2016/Vermont, and this past year. The BMW given out in Vermont was by far the most expensive bike we have raffled off in recent history. We lost $3677 on that raffle and $239 this past year. This year’s bike cost us a little over 1/2 what the BMW cost us. ( 7500 vs 14,900. ). EVERY other year it has been a money maker for the club.
Sending out postcard “reminders” to encourage people to both purchase raffle tickets, and to attend STAR (put pictures of the bike and/or the STAR location on them) is something we can look at too. Postcards are much less expensive to mail out, we can get bulk rates, and it can be easily automated so that it takes little or no labor on the part of anyone in the club to get them sent out.
I like this idea (It beats the hell out of stuffing envelops and mailing stuff out). A postcard with a section that can be filled out, torn off, and sent back in with the money. But how does the info then get from the mailed back portion and generated into a ticket? I assume it will require someone to type the information into a computer so it can be printed on a ticket? I assume when a ticket is purchased online that the buyer types their info in and then Harry can automatically transfer that to a ticket? Of course that's just a guess, I'm not sure how Harry works his magic and gets the info on the tickets.
What is the objective of the bike raffle-I think the idea was to give away a great prize to the members, and make a bit of money on the process. I suspect when it was first proposed and done it had to at least cover the cost, and with a good discount from Honda the club found they could make money.
Raise money for the club?
Increase attendance at STAR?
Do it because we have always done it?
Something else?
Norm Kern
Lots of good ideas in this thread. I’m sure we will be implementing many of them in the future.I gotta agree with Pat here - it is a great member benefit and I personally don't believe opening it to non-members would help, except to put money in the clubs coffers. And if it's been going good for over 25 years, after just a few years of less than stellar performance don't think scrapping it is the best idea. Maybe having most prizes available to all members (not just those in attendance) could help sales. Looking forward to next year.
It my opinion that the bike raffle is a great benefit for the members of this club. It’s hard to find another raffle where your chance of winning a bike is so good. It’s also a way to raise funds for the club. Funds that can then be used to promote events and to promote the club, thus providing even more value to being a member of the club. I want to see it continue and I want to see even more members participate.
Come on guys, you have got to know with out being told that dealers take bikes as trade ins. New or used you can trade a bike to a dealer.Yes Jon that is true. But we are talking about two different things, exchanging a prize for something else versus trading in something. Taking the new bike and using as a trade in is FAR DIFFERENT than the option to put the winnings toward a different bike. For me to trade in something, first I must own it - YES?????
That's certainly the way it seems to work. Of course, it all depends on what the 1099 has as the value of the bike.Come on guys, you have got to know with out being told that dealers take bikes as trade ins. New or used you can trade a bike to a dealer.Yes Jon that is true. But we are talking about two different things, exchanging a prize for something else versus trading in something. Taking the new bike and using as a trade in is FAR DIFFERENT than the option to put the winnings toward a different bike. For me to trade in something, first I must own it - YES?????
And pay income tax on the full retail value.
But if you trade the "won" bike in, would you still get a 1099 on it?? And if so, then you are getting hit twice on sales taxes.That's certainly the way it seems to work. Of course, it all depends on what the 1099 has as the value of the bike.Come on guys, you have got to know with out being told that dealers take bikes as trade ins. New or used you can trade a bike to a dealer.Yes Jon that is true. But we are talking about two different things, exchanging a prize for something else versus trading in something. Taking the new bike and using as a trade in is FAR DIFFERENT than the option to put the winnings toward a different bike. For me to trade in something, first I must own it - YES?????
And pay income tax on the full retail value.
Question.....if you win a bike, do you pay SALES tax? Or just income tax? Both? Neither? One, but not the other? Some other kind of tax?I'll be happy to answer based on my experience in 2016. I paid both State sales tax (6%) on the vehicle when I registered it and got an IRS Form1099-Misc from MSTA for the value of the win. That had to be declared on both my Federal and State Income tax returns. And since there was no tax withheld on those "earnings", when filing I had to pay the tax on that. Normally I get about $2k back in refunds, that year all in all it cost me about $4,200 and no fed or state tax refunds. Hope that helps. (PS - even when I registered my VFR which you Pat so graciously stored and delivered to me in Michigan, I paid sales tax at registration. Pretty sure I also did on my car when I first registered it in Michigan.)
Of course, this may depend on where you live as sales and state/local income tax laws vary from location to location. Tennessee, for example, has no income tax, but has a very high sales tax (9 1/2% in some areas). The sales tax rate where I live is different than it is just across the river in Cincinnati, Ohio. Some areas have no sales tax.
But I would think that unless you live where there is no sales tax, you will pay sales tax on the purchase of a bike, trade-in or no trade-in.
<snip>
By the way, when Sherry got her raffle bike home, Husband Doug rode it, and liked the Versys so much, that he bought one for himself.