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Main Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Patmo on January 06, 2019, 08:52:17 AM

Title: STAR...why?
Post by: Patmo on January 06, 2019, 08:52:17 AM
For those of you that don’t do Facebook, there has been a very lively and enjoyable discussion going on as what is the “purpose” of our annual STAR event.  The discussion morphed out of the original discussion of where to hold a western STAR?  There were several good suggestions made, but the where really depends on the WHY?


Is STAR’s main purpose to bring as many of our members together in one place at one time?
OR
Is it to introduce members to new areas and venues they wouldn’t normally go to?
OR
Something else?


Opinions? Thoughts?  Please discuss.....
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: STLTHMSTA on January 06, 2019, 10:27:32 AM
All of the above. TM
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: DirtFlier on January 06, 2019, 11:24:35 AM
Probably 70-80% more to bring members together from different parts of the country.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Ride4MS on January 06, 2019, 06:52:43 PM
I agree, All of the above.


But, that does not help to answer the question/survey.
Having been to only three so far, I go to Ride with like minded riders and to see friends that I have not seen since last year.


We have been members since 2002, but never found time to attend those far away places, until Springdale, AR.  Enjoyed it so much with the new friends we made, now we are willing to travel further.


This past year in La Crosse, I heard those same comments, along with, WOW!  You guys to do have some nice riding roads in the Midwest.


Yes, we are planning to go to Bristol, to experience new roads and renew old friendships.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: bcd on January 07, 2019, 09:58:51 AM
I sort of feel that for me, this is a false dichotomy. I think both of those things are equally important to my enjoyment of a STAR.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: brider on January 07, 2019, 11:55:35 AM
I'm with BD but I will say I have blown off STARs if i don't care for the destination. 

Now I'll add a second question and this is a pet peeve of mine.  Why can't these FB discussions at least roll to our website?   FB posts are a fart in a whirlwind as far as I'm concerned.  Have it post here as well and at least you can find it later.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Patmo on January 07, 2019, 12:17:36 PM


Now I'll add a second question and this is a pet peeve of mine.  Why can't these FB discussions at least roll to our website?   FB posts are a fart in a whirlwind as far as I'm concerned.  Have it post here as well and at least you can find it later.

Two words....proprietary software

I have been told that was possible up until a little while ago,  but there is a block on it now and it can’t be done anymore.  I think it has to do with FaceBook security changes after the large data breach they had.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: NinjaBob on January 07, 2019, 12:38:46 PM


Now I'll add a second question and this is a pet peeve of mine.  Why can't these FB discussions at least roll to our website?   FB posts are a fart in a whirlwind as far as I'm concerned.  Have it post here as well and at least you can find it later.

Two words....proprietary software

I have been told that was possible up until a little while ago,  but there is a block on it now and it can’t be done anymore.  I think it has to do with FaceBook security changes after the large data breach they had.
Pat is correct. We used to have a feed from Facebook Groups(s) to the forum. I would switch between the STAR group and the MSTA group depending on the season. After the data breech in 2016 FB changed their policy to allow only individually owned pages - no more groups. There is little control over access to groups and thus no control over content, wheras a page owner is responsible for for content.   I am far from a Facebook expert but I received the explanationion from the author of the app that provided the feed. There may be a way a Facebook guru could work around this limitation but that aint me.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: brider on January 08, 2019, 06:44:17 AM
Okay.  Thanks for the explanation.  Just adds to my dislike of FB. 
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: stevegrab on January 10, 2019, 05:52:10 PM
For me its is more about going to new places, riding new places, seeing new things. I did both STARs in Lexington KY, and I would return to Avon in a heartbeat. But I've really enjoyed the 3 STARs I attended out west (Taus 2010, Avon 2012, Rapid City 2014) as I took a week after the event to ride around places out west that I'd probably never see otherwise. A week in Colorado, then Wyoming, then Montana. This year was similar with LaCrosse, an opportunity to take the ferry across Lake Michigan and then 4 days return ride back thru Michigan's UP.

Most of the various STARs in the east/SE (State College, Charleston, Lexington twice, Asheville, Staunton) were closer to home, and places that I had on most occasions done some riding in. They were still fun, but different. The exception was 2016 Stratton VT, and other things made that even more special.

Wait what was the question?   If it is "should we return to Avon or are people tired of it?", I'd go back.

Seriously though, If the trade-off is a location we've been to before but more accessible vs. somewhere new but further away and attendance will be low (e.g. Mamoth CA) I vote for the larger number.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: JimRRides on February 08, 2019, 01:28:36 AM
I've always felt that STAR should be a better and more organized extension of the core purpose and function of the MSTA.

It should have as it's primary focus the furtherance of sport touring riding and the exploration of riding activities with like-minded riders.

There are a lot of other groups and ways to go on vacations with great shopping, entertainment complexes, historical tours, etc.

It seems like a waste of a motorcycle sport touring association's funds and organizational effort to be using it to promote and provide activities that don't, at their forefront, further motorcycle riding.

Proximity and ready access to good riding, the creation and support of enjoyable riding routes, access to good riding I wouldn't normally experience, and the companionship of other riders with whom I can enjoy the riding and exchange riding stories and information, these are the things I want to come to STAR for. I'd rather revisit locations with lots of good riding very close than to go someplace "new" just to see the sights, have a nice pool and good shopping.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: DirtFlier on February 08, 2019, 08:33:05 AM
Jim,

I can understand your side but if STAR doesn't have some enticements for non-riding, family members, we would have far few people attending.  There are some members who still use STAR or part of STAR as a family vacation which I think is great. 

Tosh 
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: stevegrab on February 08, 2019, 12:58:06 PM
Jim,

I can understand your side but if STAR doesn't have some enticements for non-riding, family members, we would have far few people attending.  There are some members who still use STAR or part of STAR as a family vacation which I think is great. 

Tosh 
Some members also don't spend the whole event riding from dawn to dusk every day, they are looking for some half days or days off and want to see some sight, shopping, etc. That doesn't apply to me usually, I'll ride every day and usually a full day. But others are different.

Its good to have things to do for non riders, or others looking for a break. So long as that isn't a priority over having good roads.

I liked the large number of dining options nearby, but have also been OK with just 1-2 places for the 3-4 evening meals during STAR.

Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: STLTHMSTA on April 06, 2019, 08:09:42 AM
Got some plans in order for post STAR to ride in the area before going home. Found a place to stay near  the infamous Gap, will be riding it on Thursday (hopefully dry and empty). My roomie has never ridden it or the Cherohala in all his advanced years, so we are bucket listing a little. We even have a garage for the bikes. To relate this to STAR, it serves both a riding opportunity and a social event for us. We look forward to seeing many old and new friends at STAR. It's always great for me!   TM
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: stevegrab on April 08, 2019, 01:33:45 PM
Got some plans in order for post STAR to ride in the area before going home. Found a place to stay near  the infamous Gap, will be riding it on Thursday (hopefully dry and empty). My roomie has never ridden it or the Cherohala in all his advanced years, so we are bucket listing a little. We even have a garage for the bikes. To relate this to STAR, it serves both a riding opportunity and a social event for us. We look forward to seeing many old and new friends at STAR. It's always great for me!   TM

Tom I'm curious where you're staying. Is it one of those cool motorcycle specific places with garage and such around Robbinsville?

My brother Richard and I also have plans to do some riding in the Gap area after STAR, probably spend 2 nights in the area and leave for home on Saturday. Not sure where we'll stay was going to look all over maybe even as far away as Sweetwater/Athens area to be close to our retired brother and spend evenings visiting with them.

This will be Richard's first ride in the Gap area, we've seen some of it during a winter visit on 4 wheels.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: STLTHMSTA on April 09, 2019, 09:06:23 AM
Steve, I'd be happy to share the name of Two Wheel Inn on Tallulah RD. (I think that's129) just south of Robbinsville, NC 28771 proper. We have 2 single beds and a garage. Very friendly folks and obviously bike oriented. 828-479-4248.
They have a website (you guessed it twowheelinn.com) if ya'd like to see some pics. It would be cool if several other folks made this a post-STAR grouping for some fun riding in the area. I'm rooming with Dale Hall again this year and he has never been, soooooooo I said we can fix that. After some riding on Friday we will part company with he going south to FL and I will return to OH. See ya there or sooner, TM


Tell 'em I sent ya!
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: stevegrab on April 11, 2019, 02:01:56 PM
Thanks Tom will check them out.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: OSU55 on May 30, 2019, 06:06:57 PM
Jim,

I can understand your side but if STAR doesn't have some enticements for non-riding, family members, we would have far few people attending.  There are some members who still use STAR or part of STAR as a family vacation which I think is great. 

Tosh


Is it a vacation with motorcycle riding as an activity, or using vacation to go motorcycle riding. I can always take the family on a vacation and do what everyone else does. For me, rallies, national or otherwise, should be about motorcycles and riding, the opportunity to see old friends and meet new, and motorcycle riding, and great, curvy, twisty roads made for motorcycles, and riding motorcycles on those roads. Did I say they should be about riding?


Since these nationals pick bad locations so the hotel has a big banquet room and lots of restaurants within walking distance, and require monotonous boring riding to get to the "good stuff", and most attendees approach them as vacations to do "normal" things, with riding as an add-on activity, I have abandoned them in favor of the weekend rallies that are in much better riding locations. Back in the late 80's and 90's both HSTA and COG national/regional rallies were more motorcycle and riding focused and more enjoyable for me. Focusing on "number of attendees" is too corporate for me - I deal with that every day at work. Getting out on a bike is about getting away from all that.





Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Patmo on May 30, 2019, 07:08:48 PM
You’ll probably have to ride about 2-5 miles from the Bristol hotel to get to good stuff on a couple of the routes.

The hotel in LaCrosse was maybe 5 miles through town to get to good stuff.  It’ll be about the same next year.  Wasn’t far in Colorado Springs either. Was a little farther in Springfield and the last Lexington, KY STAR, but I still didn’t think it was real bad. Not on a par with some of the regional rallies, I’ll grant you that., but certainly not bad. 

Easy access to good riding roads is one of the top considerations when choosing a STAR location.  We’ve decided against some locations just because they didn’t offer it.

STAR events have just become too large to be held in small venues in small towns.  The other alternative would be to hold them in large country resorts, but then you have to deal with the whole room cost thing, as they command a premium price during the summer months.


There just aren’t that many locations in the US that offer everything we want, at a price we can afford, but we keep searching for them.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: stevegrab on May 31, 2019, 05:00:06 PM
The location selected is always a compromise between good local riding and a venue that can accommodate us. Even if we didn't have any seminars or meetings, and didn't need a banquet facility we still need 100-150 rooms or more. And having plenty of places you can walk to for dinner is pretty important when we put our crowd in a spot with many looking for dining at the same time. (A limited number of options, let alone a lone hotel restaurant are easily overwhelmed at regional rallies.)

Some STARs have been located in placed that required a bit of a slog thru bad traffic, or must use nearby crowded interstate. Most are not bad and within 5-10 minutes you're on some good roads.

Lexington was probably one of the biggest cities I recall us using, Asheville is another. Neither were great, but it was still a lot better than my local riding which usually requires about 30min of slab to get out of metropolis, and another 30min of boring stuff to get into the good roads.

I've ridden thru Bristol a couple of times, didn't seem that big to me. Probably more like Staunton VA than Lexington.

BTW Nobody is focusing on "number of attendees" for STAR, they don't pick a location trying to get the most people. A couple decades ago we had around 2000 members, these days closer to 1000 (maybe its 1200 or so I forget). Even with just 1000 we need to put on a STAR that as many can attend as possible. It would not be fair to hold STAR somewhere that limits us to 150-200 members. (One of the largest regional events Mail Pouch Fly By had numbers well over 100 many time.)
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: OSU55 on June 05, 2019, 10:23:10 PM
"You’ll probably have to ride about 2-5 miles from the Bristol hotel to get to good stuff on a couple of the routes.The hotel in LaCrosse was maybe 5 miles through town to get to good stuff.  It’ll be about the same next year.  Wasn’t far in Colorado Springs either."

I have ridden all those areas. We have very different definitions of "good stuff", which is fine, I'm not as easily entertained.

"BTW Nobody is focusing on "number of attendees" for STAR, they don't pick a location trying to get the most people. A couple decades ago we had around 2000 members, these days closer to 1000 (maybe its 1200 or so I forget)."

I get the exact opposite impression, so we agree to disagree. Wonder why membership has dropped ~50%? Two indicators I can think of: 1) the supposed best sport touring club raffling off a Goldwing. Sorry but that's the definition of sacrilegious. 2) More and more weekend/regional rallies are not requiring MSTA membership - wonder why? Could it be club officers and friends are self-serving and club membership is of little to no value unless you value the national rally?

The original thread question was "STAR WHY?"   No one has addressed "Is it a vacation with motorcycle riding as an activity, or using vacation to go motorcycle riding."  It's obviously the former, as  there are no indications of the latter. Otherwise attendance, a big hotel, and plenty of restaurants in walking distance wouldn't be defining factors for location.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: DirtFlier on June 06, 2019, 05:20:34 AM
Motorcycle sales have been steadily dropping the past 10+ years as has membership in various riding clubs.  Yes, even HOG has seen a drop.  And some of the manufacturer sponsored clubs no longer exist.  The downturn goes way beyond the MSTA and whatever type of bike we decide to raffle at STAR. 
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: STLTHMSTA on June 06, 2019, 08:42:46 AM
Wow! Debbie Downer is among us. Whaaa-whaa-whaaaaaaa.  WTH Dude?? You need a few rides yourself ? Bored? Constipated? Little blue pill not working for you?? Geeeez!  I know, you're phishing', just trying to stir up the poop pot. Are you the reincarnate of "Warchild"?

Ok, you made it clear this might not be your cup of tea, so find the right one and drink it.  TM
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Patmo on June 06, 2019, 10:22:38 AM

Much of what John has said I won't address, and I'll give him....as a new forum member with only 4 posts and a possibly a new MSTA member....the benefit of the doubt.  But there are few things he said that don't stand up to the FACTS.


Q...Why a Goldwing?
B...the short answer is because Honda all but insisted that we do so and made us such a deal that we would have had to been the stupidest people in the world to refuse it.  We have sold over $15,000 dollars worth of raffle tickets BEFORE STAR, so it seems to be a pretty popular choice with much of the membership. It certainly would not have been our 1st choice (shown by the fact that we have never raffled off one before), but its proving to be a wise choice.


Q....Why get rid of the membership requirement for attendance at ANY MSTA event.
A....No short answer here, as the answer is complicated.  I'll try to simplify it for you...


1st....as a now chartered BMWRA association club, we must allow any BMWRA member to attend ANY of our MSTA events...it's in the rules
2nd...(and this goes to your point about only valuing the STAR events)  We feel that the best way to GROW the club membership is to get people to experience the club events. The REGIONAL/LOCAL events are the best way to make that happen.  So, instead of telling people that they must 1st JOIN the club, and then they would be "allowed" to attend events, we think a better approach is to INVITE people to attend events, with no strings attached.  WE are confident that once people do attend them, and have the great time that we know they can have, they will want to keep attending them.  Along the way, we are hopeful that they will want to support the organization and will JOIN the club....not because that will "allow" them to attend the events, but because they WANT to SUPPORT the club....that makes for long term and not just temporary members.  AND...what if they never join the club and just keep attending events?  Well, doesn't that HELP the  Regional Events to be more successful?  Doesn't that help the local and state organizations in the long run?  What's wrong with that!?
3rd....Many members of the club have spent hundreds of hours over the last few years working on ideas for simplifying our regional/local events, and for ways to guide and support the coordinators of those events.....notice I said Regional-Local and not STAR.
STAR has historically drawn about the same % of members, no matter what the size of the club...25-30%.  When we had 2000 members STAR drew 400-500.  We are  now about 1100 and this STAR has about 300 signed up right now.  We recognize that the total number of attendees at regional events exceeds the total number of STAR attendees every year.  So we have placed an emphasis on those events.  The fact that there are new regional events taking place, and that attendance at many of the older events has stabilized seems to show that this approach is working.  Only time will tell for sure, but I'm encouraged.


Lastly...


Q....are the club officers and friends "self-serving"?
A....pistols at dawn?   Do you really want to start insulting people in your 4th post?  It usually takes quite a bit longer before people start doing that.... :o


John....I don't know who you are other than your forum profile.  Which means you don't know me either.  Yet you seem to feel you can make a judgement like this?  Did you think I wouldn't find this insulting and just a little aggravating?  Not to mention totally incorrect?
 
If being an officer of any club where one volunteers their time, gets no pay, actually spends their own money for the "privilege" of getting to an event early so that they can spend time setting up.  Spends their own time and money to seek out places to hold those events.  Stays extra time to take things down and clean things up.  Has to personally guarantee some financial transactions and agreements. Spends their own money on such things as postage, printing, and travel expenses.  Gives up their riding time at the events so that they can stand over a grill and cook for people that were out riding.  (Jon Campbell stopped even bring a bike to Mail Pouch for many years)…..well, if doing all of those things and more makes someone "self-serving", then your definition of that term is different than mine. 


The officers and volunteers in this club have been doing all of these things for many many years, and they rarely get the appreciation they deserve.  For me, that's Ok.  I'm not doing what I'm doing with any ego or need for public support and acclimation.  But I think I will insist that I not be publicly insulted and accused of something like that. 


I think that you owe the officers, volunteers, and their friends a public apology.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Paco Bulto on June 06, 2019, 12:29:15 PM
As far as never raffling off a Gold Wing in a sport touring club, the GW has never been as close to a sport touring bike as the new one is.  After riding one, my impression is that it is closer to my ST1300 than to a GW I once had.


Have a nice day.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: RichGrab on June 06, 2019, 04:37:22 PM
It's so refreshing (NOT) to see a newcomer be so nonchalant with their criticism. Maybe this isn't the right group for him.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Paco Bulto on June 06, 2019, 04:42:19 PM
As Rosanne Roseannadana used to say "you sound like a real fun guy".  ;D
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: NinjaBob on June 06, 2019, 06:38:21 PM
We can take the criticism Steve and I think the EC welcomes OSU55's opinion! I think the EC is very open to everyone's opinion and doing a great job of making the most members happy as far as STAR is concerned. I did not think the roads in Vermont or Wisconsin were as good as roads in a lot of other STARs I have attended but I was very glad to visit these areas and found the venues to be delightful.  OSU55 you sound like a ride, eat, sleep, repeat kind of rider. Me too, but for me the eat and sleep  parts are important too( as well as neccesary).
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Patmo on June 06, 2019, 07:12:14 PM
Bob...I agree.  We welcome opinions and constructive criticism is just part of the job. 


If someone favors the smaller events over a STAR, I certainly can understand why.  Honestly, I do to for the most part.  But I do like having STAR as an excuse to visit new places.  Probably never would have made it to LaCrosse if it wasn’t for having a STAR there.  Same is true with Vermont.  I guess everyone has their own reasons for attending or not attending a STAR.  The contentious of this thread seems to be people want both things....great riding (that’s close by!) and the opportunity to socialize with other members.  How much it being a new location is important is hard to gauge.  For some people that might be a major reason to attend, but for others it doesn’t matter.

Maybe we take a lot of things for granted about what people want out of a STAR,  but the main thing we have to go on when judging people’s wants and desires is the after STAR survey.  Unfortunately we don’t get a great rate of return on them, only about 1/3 are every returned.


It’s important that everyone have the chance to give their thoughts and opinions freely.  But let’s keep the tone friendly and free of judgment, accusation or personal attacks.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Ohiomsta on June 06, 2019, 09:05:54 PM
Well, it seems another turd has surfaced in the punch bowl. It's as predictable as the locust. A non volunteer bitching about what the volunteers are doing. Now it is ok to bitch about what a volunteer in the association is doing but you earn that right. Put in at least 20 years in volunteer jobs in the club and you earn the right to bitch a little. If you haven't done that than you need to just SHUT THE HELL UP!
Jon Sr.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: STLTHMSTA on June 06, 2019, 10:38:01 PM
Well Patmo, you had a better explanation and eloquence than I could have ever stated.
Well done.  TM
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Ride4MS on June 06, 2019, 11:09:05 PM
Last year at La Crosse was only my 3rd STAR, and I was the Coordinator.  My wife and I drove to the La Crosse area and beyond 4 times in the previous year, checking out the location, as well as looking for a good lunch stop.  This was all on our own money, even the gas.


We arrived on Friday mid-day.  I rode my cycle, and my wife followed with our F150 full of door prizes and other items for the event.


I parked my ST1100 on Friday, and did not ride again until mid-morning on Monday for only about 100 miles with a few other people following us.  They wanted to see some sites, as well as some riding, but not long rides.


Tuesday and Wednesday we did the same.  The total miles ridden that week was about 350 miles.


WHY??  Because I had volunteered to be the Coordinator, as well as we were both Ambassadors for the event.  And we enjoyed it.


So don't anyone say that the volunteers do not love their job, whether it be Coordinators, or a greeter at the door or registration, they love what they do year after year for the club and for everyone to enjoy STAR or any event.


As far as membership less than it was years ago.  Check out any club.  Not just a cycle club.  Car Clubs, Church groups, local clubs or groups.  They all have less members than years ago.  Much of this is there is too much to do.  And, as they say, the times are a changing.


OSU55, please join us in Bristol and you will see what a great group the MSTA is and also take the time to volunteer for a position at STAR.  You will come away with a better point of view.  You will also get to make many new friends.  See my earlier post for more details.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: RIDEMYST on June 07, 2019, 07:23:49 AM
Well said Pat! I tend to agree with Jon C's observation that those that complain most put forth the least effort to help. So sad.
Personally I'm looking forward to STAR as always and appreciate the efforts of those that volunteer their time. Keep up the good work people as it does not go unnoticed. -JEP-
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: BroncoBilly on June 08, 2019, 08:38:39 PM
For those of you that don’t do Facebook, there has been a very lively and enjoyable discussion going on as what is the “purpose” of our annual STAR event.  The discussion morphed out of the original discussion of where to hold a western STAR?  There were several good suggestions made, but the where really depends on the WHY?


Is STAR’s main purpose to bring as many of our members together in one place at one time?
OR
Is it to introduce members to new areas and venues they wouldn’t normally go to?
OR
Something else?


Opinions? Thoughts?  Please discuss.....
I enjoy attending STAR to see old friends (and they are all OLD) and ride with a mature group always staying below posted speed limits.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: OSU55 on June 11, 2019, 08:06:43 AM
Well, while I may have only posted 4 times, I have been a member about since the late 90's - early 2000's, don't remember exactly. I've only been a licensed rider for 44 years, been a member of COG/HSTA/MSTA attending various rallies (club or other) for about 30 years,  so I might not be as experienced as you all.

As a paying member, I certainly have a right to my opinion, whether I volunteer or not. I simply responded to the topic "STAR...Why?". I obviously have a different opinion than those responding on this forum concerning STAR, but I know other members with opinions similar to mine. You all obviously like it the way it is, so good for you. When you would like to see something change, you first have to say something. I have. Don't ask if you don't want to listen, at least Ninjabob did! To his point, you can't make everybody happy.


It seems some of you regard STAR with an almost religious cult fervor, treating my opinion as blasphemy - name calling, insulting my manhood, insinuating health issues. Hopefully we don't meet face to face.

As to owing apologies, I asked what I think is a legitimate question, I didn't make a statement or accusation, so none is required.

"2) More and more weekend/regional rallies are not requiring MSTA membership - wonder why? Could it be club officers and friends are self-serving and club membership is of little to no value unless you value the national rally?"


[/size]Patmo, you're apparently a club officer (I don't keep track of the politics, keeping up with liberals trying to destroy America is enough politics). I appreciate the explanation that the club made a local rally attendance/membership change. Perhaps you would address the part of the question above, regarding membership value if one doesn't attend the national?

Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: RichGrab on June 11, 2019, 10:33:24 AM
Well, while I may have only posted 4 times, I have been a member about since the late 90's - early 2000's, don't remember exactly. I've only been a licensed rider for 44 years, been a member of COG/HSTA/MSTA attending various rallies (club or other) for about 30 years,  so I might not be as experienced as you all.

As a paying member, I certainly have a right to my opinion, whether I volunteer or not. I simply responded to the topic "STAR...Why?". I obviously have a different opinion than those responding on this forum concerning STAR, but I know other members with opinions similar to mine. You all obviously like it the way it is, so good for you. When you would like to see something change, you first have to say something. I have. Don't ask if you don't want to listen, at least Ninjabob did! To his point, you can't make everybody happy.


It seems some of you regard STAR with an almost religious cult fervor, treating my opinion as blasphemy - name calling, insulting my manhood, insinuating health issues. Hopefully we don't meet face to face.

As to owing apologies, I asked what I think is a legitimate question, I didn't make a statement or accusation, so none is required.

"2) More and more weekend/regional rallies are not requiring MSTA membership - wonder why? Could it be club officers and friends are self-serving and club membership is of little to no value unless you value the national rally?"


[/size]Patmo, you're apparently a club officer (I don't keep track of the politics, keeping up with liberals trying to destroy America is enough politics). I appreciate the explanation that the club made a local rally attendance/membership change. Perhaps you would address the part of the question above, regarding membership value if one doesn't attend the national?


Blah, blah, blah. So, you've been a member for a while, but don't keep track of the officers. Maybe what you fail to notice (or maybe know since you're so busy worrying about liberals destroying the country) is that STAR is also the annual "business" meeting for the club. In my opinion, that in and of itself is THE REASON to hold the event somewhere where attendance can be maximized. The other thing is each member gets what they think is a worthwhile experience for their being a member.  And I don't know what English language you speak, but your own quote is an accusation when you say "Could it be club officers and friends are self-serving ..." That is a pretty clear accusation to me. So, if you find no value in being a MSTA member, go play somewhere else and have a nice day.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Patmo on June 11, 2019, 03:47:23 PM
I’ll be happy to respond to the inquiry about membership value....


First we need to separate that into two categories...


Monetary value and non-monetary value.


As for the latter, NON-monetary value, this is something that every person has to answer for themselves. There is no set answer as each person gets out of the club different things. These will include friendships, opportunities to ride, shared experiences, advice, information, and many more things I can’t even think about right now. The list is as long as the club is old.  As diverse as there are the number of members.


Monetary value is a little more concrete.  It starts with the cost of 39.00 per year for a membership.  But, you’ve got to subtract 10.00 from that for the 10.00 off of a REGIONAL rally fee coupon that every dues paying member gets when they join or renew (or in the case of multi year Members it is sent yearly). That leaves you with a yearly cost of 29.00.....not even enough money to fill the tank of my Jeep Cherokee 1X.  So let’s start with agreeing that a membership to the MSTA is pretty darn inexpensive.


But wait!  There’s more!


Each dues paying member will get 4 copies of the STAReview, either mailed to them in print form or sent in digital form. Like the coupons, this will be only available to dues paying members.


Beyond that, there are a whole host of discounts on hotels, gear, admissions, and parts that are available to MSTA members. Those discount codes are not given to non- members. Taking advantage of just a few every year can more than pay for a membership.  And speaking of discounts....most of the events (regional and national) involve staying in a hotel and/or eating at a restaurant....almost always at a discounted rate that the event coordinators negotiated for the event.  Being part of an established group makes this not just possible, but easy.


I’ll sum it up this way....I’m a member because I WANT to be.  I want to be because in the MSTA I have found a group that shares my style of riding and a group of people whose friendships I value and with whom I enjoy riding with and spending time with.  I’ve not found that so completely with any of the other groups I have been associated with.  The monetary cost is virtually 0 for me as I take advantage of the discounts and save more there than the 39.00 it costs me.  In fact I’m a sustaining member because even with the extra 30.00 that costs me, it’s still a wash.


I’ll make just a couple of more points...in my PERSONAL opinion....I think it’s more important that we have a small solid nucleus of members that believe in the club and want the club to continue to exist, than it is to have thousands of members that are only members for what they financially get out of the it.  If someone is breaking it down to just why does it make financial sense to be a member?.....they are missing the whole point of the club.  In addition, if all we club members are concerned with is membership numbers and growing the numbers, then we as club members are missing the point too.  Dana Sawyer didn’t start this club with the idea of just getting big, he started this club with the idea that it would be FUN.  I kind of figure that if we concentrate on making things fun, the numbers will take care of themselves.  If spending 39.00 a year for a membership is going to take all the fun out of it for someone, then don’t spend it.  Come to the events and concentrate on having fun.  Maybe if you’re having enough fun you won’t mind sending in the 39.00....consider it a donation if you like and not a membership.


Seems that as soon as ANY money is involved people take this sh** way to seriously.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: stevegrab on June 11, 2019, 04:56:21 PM
Well Patmo, you had a better explanation and eloquence than I could have ever stated.
Well done.  TM
Yep Pat does a great job with the diplomacy, I personally won't make that much effort with somebody who is just trashing the club and putting out lies.


I won't bother "debating" with OSU555, he's obviously got some ax to grind with the club, of which he is vastly misinformed. Keeping up with the officers especially VP is far from difficult, its in every issue of STAReview with Pat's column.


PS  According to the Blue Book OSU555 (name and location in their profile) has been a member since 2012 a bit after the late 90s early 2000s. Maybe their membership lapsed and started over.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Patmo on June 11, 2019, 05:45:55 PM
I forgot to mention that MSTA membership also lets you participate in the bike raffle.  Now I know that the GW isn't OSU's cup of tea, but that's still a pretty good perk IMHO. 

Don't know of another raffle, with a ticket cost of only 7.00, where your odds of winning such an expensive prize are so good!   


Some MEMBER is GOING TO WIN a new motorcyle 2 weeks from tomorrow.....who's it going to be!?
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: doug mcpeek on June 11, 2019, 11:57:06 PM
I do not see why STAR and the regional events have to be exactly the same.  STAR is a different event with a much bigger attendance and that attendance difference requires certain necessities such as a bigger hotel.  We cannot hold STAR at the Allegheny Inn (which is just a few miles from what I consider the really good roads). There's not a big enough hotel in the Breaks or at Smoke Hole Road or in Burke's Garden, either.   I find it unreasonable to expect that an event will be tailored to my precise tastes unless I planned the whole thing.  Even then compromises would have to be made. 

Bristol is a brilliant location in my view.  The hotel is not downtown, but on the outskirts.  Roads like VA 80, VA 16, VA 58 and dozens of others are within easy reach.  And since I'll be riding through southern Ohio and eastern Kentucky to get there, I have the bonus of a good ride to and from the event.  Back when I rode a bike with sportier ergonomics I hated even a brief stint on a straight road.  Now with standard ergos I still hate the interstate, but I can ride a short distance to get between the twisty bits with no fuss.  If the weather holds out, I'll have fun at STAR.  If it rains, maybe I'll go downtown.  ;-)



Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Patmo on June 12, 2019, 08:25:50 AM
In regards to just how close the “good roads” are from the Holiday Inn.....I will assume that most people will think that 421 AKA “The Snake” is a good road?


It’s exactly 11.8 miles of little twisty back roads to the top of the snake....hardly a “drone”.   ;D



Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Patmo on June 12, 2019, 03:18:26 PM
Holy Cow!  I totally forgot about the Dan Clark Fund too!

A member benefit that actually PAYS members to buy gear and take riding training!   What a great plan for adding value to a membership.  Is there anyone else that has a program like this?!  It has given members THOUSANDS of dollars over the years for doing nothing more than what they were already doing...buying new gear and/or taking training classes. 
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Ride4MS on June 12, 2019, 11:16:15 PM
Thank you Pat for mentioning the Dan Clark Safety Program.  I forgot to mention that myself.  That is correct, thousands per year.  The fund has provided over $3,000.00 per year for the past several years to members.  Most of the members that received money this past year, got back over $50.00.  One member turned in 4 receipts, and got back almost $400.00.  Now that is a BIG benefit for ONLY MSTA  members.


More details can be found on the forum under Dan Clark Safety Fund, and in the past issues of STAReview.


While I am talking about the program, when you purchase an item that qualifies, send the receipt to us before you forget.  Donations to help continue the Fund can be sent to Treasurer, Tim Macy.


Thank you to everyone that has donated to this program.
Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: Brick on June 13, 2019, 11:29:19 AM
I do not see why STAR and the regional events have to be exactly the same.  STAR is a different event with a much bigger attendance and that attendance difference requires certain necessities such as a bigger hotel.  We cannot hold STAR at the Allegheny Inn (which is just a few miles from what I consider the really good roads). There's not a big enough hotel in the Breaks or at Smoke Hole Road or in Burke's Garden, either.   I find it unreasonable to expect that an event will be tailored to my precise tastes unless I planned the whole thing.  Even then compromises would have to be made. 

Bristol is a brilliant location in my view.  The hotel is not downtown, but on the outskirts.  Roads like VA 80, VA 16, VA 58 and dozens of others are within easy reach.  And since I'll be riding through southern Ohio and eastern Kentucky to get there, I have the bonus of a good ride to and from the event.  Back when I rode a bike with sportier ergonomics I hated even a brief stint on a straight road.  Now with standard ergos I still hate the interstate, but I can ride a short distance to get between the twisty bits with no fuss.  If the weather holds out, I'll have fun at STAR.  If it rains, maybe I'll go downtown.  ;-)

Yea and get to STAR on Saturday so you can participate in the Saturday MSTA Poker Walk. It will be fun!


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Title: Re: STAR...why?
Post by: doug mcpeek on June 13, 2019, 02:16:38 PM
Quote
Yea and get to STAR on Saturday so you can participate in the Saturday MSTA Poker Walk. It will be fun!


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I'll be there Friday night.