MSTA Forums

Main Forums => General Discussion => Topic started by: Patmo on September 11, 2017, 04:06:57 PM

Title: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: Patmo on September 11, 2017, 04:06:57 PM
for the sharing of ideas and thoughts on the Bluebook.  Please keep all discussion here and out of the poll area.


Thank You.
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: normkern on September 11, 2017, 05:04:40 PM
1. Provide a printed copy to all members every other year as in the recent past.
2. Provide a PDF version online for easy download.

Done

1. Cuts annual cost in half to < $2 per member per year.
2. Pleases all members, including older members who don't like using computers.
3. Maintains perceived value of club membership.
4. Need to regularly remind members of the information in it in addition to member contact information- Discounts, officers, etc.

Norm Kern

PS: If you are on this forum, you are a computer user, as is everyone else on here. Don't assume everyone else in the club is like you.
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: normkern on September 11, 2017, 05:08:01 PM
Poll page is public now. OK, but do not vote unless you are an MSTA member!

Norm Kern
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: tunerider335 on September 12, 2017, 07:20:18 AM
I agree with Norm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: wmeacham on September 12, 2017, 08:55:17 AM
Does this belong in the members only section?
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: Patmo on September 12, 2017, 09:04:09 AM
Does this belong in the members only section?

It was in the Members Only section.  However, we have people that are MSTA members in good standing that have never gotten their access to that area, not realizing that it was something that didn't just automatically come when they gained access to the this forum.  I also hope that after putting an article in the next issue of the STAReview we may have even more members that will go to this forum in order to cast a vote.  I wanted to make it as easy as I could for those new members to find the poll and cast their vote.  We may get a few non members that will access this thread, but since they will probably not know what the Bluebook is, I doubt that many (if any) will be moved to vote.  In any case. I think it's a risk we need to take in the effort to make voting easy for the actual members.
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: DirtFlier on September 12, 2017, 09:31:55 AM
I doubt if non-members who vote will sway the election, one way or another.  :-)
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: Landon on September 12, 2017, 03:22:06 PM
I doubt the forum is going to get a flood of members coming here to vote on the Bluebook poll. It seems the vast majority have little interest in this forum.
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: wmeacham on September 13, 2017, 12:36:52 PM
Got it. thanks
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: stevegrab on September 13, 2017, 12:52:12 PM
1. Provide a printed copy to all members every other year as in the recent past.
2. Provide a PDF version online for easy download.

Done

1. Cuts annual cost in half to < $2 per member per year.
2. Pleases all members, including older members who don't like using computers.
3. Maintains perceived value of club membership.
4. Need to regularly remind members of the information in it in addition to member contact information- Discounts, officers, etc.

Norm Kern

PS: If you are on this forum, you are a computer user, as is everyone else on here. Don't assume everyone else in the club is like you.
I agree on the plan and that it satisfies the basic needs of most members. I'm puzzled regarding the PS, what does that relate to.

Regarding the online version of the Blue Book, would that be published just once a year like it is for printing? Or would it be kept up to date regularly?  I know that depends a lot on the method used to create the PDF/print copy info, if it can be kept up to date (quarterly maybe) it would be nice if we knew that so we could load an updated copy.

As for having the PDF on a device, I've enjoyed that and while I'm a techy in some ways (use computers, my job is writing software) I'm a newb with smart phones and was surprised how well it worked, even put the PDF on a home page screen so it is easier to find when I need it. I'd be willing to help people with some of that techy stuff if they find me at an event, not phone support :) 
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: normkern on September 13, 2017, 04:39:04 PM
Rich,

Not being negative or anything, just pointing out that any online poll is going to exclude all the members who who don't regularly use computers. Those members are precisely the ones most likely to want the Blue Book in traditional form. That makes any online poll on this particular subject inherently skewed.

Although I didn't explain in the above post, my recommendation is simply the overwhelming majority hand vote of the roughly 100 members attending the Bull Shoals rally where I asked for a show of hands on all the Blue Book choices in the latest survey. Of course this result is skewed toward those who are active participants and loyal rally attendees. The support for the printed edition was very clear!

Norm
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: DirtFlier on September 13, 2017, 05:38:30 PM
It seems that the printed Blue Book is wildly popular compared to the STAReview which only stirs ho-hum enthusiasm.   
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: stevegrab on September 14, 2017, 01:57:27 PM
Rich,

Not being negative or anything, just pointing out that any online poll is going to exclude all the members who who don't regularly use computers. Those members are precisely the ones most likely to want the Blue Book in traditional form. That makes any online poll on this particular subject inherently skewed.

Although I didn't explain in the above post, my recommendation is simply the overwhelming majority hand vote of the roughly 100 members attending the Bull Shoals rally where I asked for a show of hands on all the Blue Book choices in the latest survey. Of course this result is skewed toward those who are active participants and loyal rally attendees. The support for the printed edition was very clear!

Norm
Norm,

Not to nitpick but I'm Steve (Grabowski) not Rich (my brother the 2016 raffle bike winner). Ever since he won the bike it seems I've had a few people confusing me with him, before that nobody even knew me ;)  Our screen names are similar and end in Grab, so I understand the confusion.

Agree about those without computers being more inclined to want the paper blue book, they probably also want the paper STAReview. I used to feel that way too, but recently I was trying to locate a member (wasn't sure of name / location) and found using the PDF and the search that is built into the viewer was very useful (would not have tried scanning the pages).
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: bcd on September 14, 2017, 02:18:46 PM
Not to nitpick but I'm Steve (Grabowski) not Rich (my brother the 2016 raffle bike winner). Ever since he won the bike it seems I've had a few people confusing me with him, before that nobody even knew me ;)  Our screen names are similar and end in Grab, so I understand the confusion.

Of course, I just think of you as the brother who jumps up and down and shouts less.   ;D

Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: RichGrab on September 14, 2017, 05:05:33 PM
Not to nitpick but I'm Steve (Grabowski) not Rich (my brother the 2016 raffle bike winner). Ever since he won the bike it seems I've had a few people confusing me with him, before that nobody even knew me ;)  Our screen names are similar and end in Grab, so I understand the confusion.

Of course, I just think of you as the brother who jumps up and down and shouts less.   ;D


Thanks for pointing out our differences Bryan.  :trink39: :clap: 8)
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: Rayk86ss on October 02, 2017, 03:22:20 PM
 I voted with the majority on this issue.  My choice was online blue-book with a print version at extra cost. 


After thinking about it, I'm not sure if this is the right choice.  I have not looked at a blue book, or a StarReview for a couple of years.  I no longer feel a need for either, but there may be a sizable minority of the club for whom the print  versions are a big deal.  I'd be more than willing to have my dues help subsidize a print version for these folks even if I'll just donate my own copy to the recycle bin.
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: ladtodt on October 02, 2017, 06:04:01 PM
Well, I'm a newbie to this forum, but I'll give this a shot.

I like the compromise that Norm offers; the print version every other year.  The PDF version is still a bit awkward for me to use, so I can empathize with the folks who aren't familiar with computers.  But I like the idea of saving money on printing.

It will be interesting to see what our finances look like after this lean year of trying to recover from mistakes of the last year or so.  We seem to be going through some significant changes, which means it's still very important to be careful how we spend money.
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: Colorado Rob on October 02, 2017, 09:04:12 PM
I'd vote for a print version too, and a new/updated one every other year would be OK. I like the print version of Star review too. It's easier to read in the library, cheers, Rob
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: stevegrab on October 03, 2017, 09:03:12 AM
For anybody having trouble using the PDF, I strongly urge you to use the search function in your Adobe Acrobat Reader, it makes finding what you're looking for much easier. (The app I loaded on my Crome based phone has it just like the one I use on my computer.) Though at FCR I was trying to find a member in it who needed their member#, but somehow didn't get the match, but it worked the next day when I was looking up something else).

The other nice thing is, you can highlight things in it, and cut/copy/paste into other things on your phone (like your contacts, or phone/email/map apps to call, email or find their address).
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: bcd on October 03, 2017, 09:28:53 AM
Being able to search by name in the PDF is great when you don't remember what state someone is from, too!
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: africord on October 03, 2017, 10:36:52 AM
I vote for PDF. One more resource I can stash in my phone. One less item to pack!
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: sirepair on October 11, 2017, 10:10:40 PM
New member and a tech guy here. 


Why not offer the printed blue book free to any member who requests one (1 a year), but maintain the latest-greatest online in PDF format?  Members could "opt in" for the paper book.  I would gladly donate a portion of membership fees to the user wanting the hard copy since it's likely a minority. But I understand there are those that want that paper document in hand.  Maybe these members are crossing off names of members they have met...


Another forum I am a member of (ST-Owners.com) has their RAN list (Riders Assistance Network) which is much the same thing, only a printed version is unavailable.  It has proven invaluable to many in times of need and I try to keep a copy of it on my smartphone. 


Many forums are feeling the pinch from other social media.  I note MSTA and ST-Owners both have Facebook pages now, and some content is cross posted.  Good and bad, as some new exposure comes from it, but it is another outlet to be touched and moderated. 


I personally like the exclusivity of the forums. I go to the forums to find specific information and/or communicate with a set group of people.  Facebook's more "open" architecture means my work friends see stuff I post for my MC friends and vice-versa [/size](it's too much of a PITA to mess with who sees what!)   Sorry, I digress...
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: Patmo on October 12, 2017, 07:12:15 AM
New member and a tech guy here. 


Why not offer the printed blue book free to any member who requests one (1 a year)

Just a reminder.....we do have approximately 400 copies of the 2016 edition of the Blue Book still available to anyone that wants one.  Just send a request to the Membership committee and they will send you one at no charge.
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: normkern on October 12, 2017, 08:58:51 AM

Why not offer the printed blue book free to any member who requests one (1 a year), but maintain the latest-greatest online in PDF format?  Members could "opt in" for the paper book.  I would gladly donate a portion of membership fees to the user wanting the hard copy since it's likely a minority. But I understand there are those that want that paper document in hand.  Maybe these members are crossing off names of members they have met...


Since our Blue Book is a quality printed and bound piece, much of its cost is in setup. Printing a smaller number of copies than we currently do does not save that much money. Printing it less frequently (every other year) saves more money. It would take time and effort of volunteers to administer an opt-in list. An up-to-date PDF costs little to nothing and satisfies the computer and phone literate folks. The nice printed copy every other year is a tangible benefit of membership, which distinguishes us from the internet-only groups.

Norm Kern
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: Andray on October 12, 2017, 09:35:48 PM
OK, been a member since 2001.  Still have all my Bluebooks.  Members I have met have either a check mark or red highlight beside their names. :)
 I like seeing the member/dealer discounts, email addys, packing list in the back.  And most importantly to me if in trouble, who lives near here that I could call for help.
  Needless to say, I want a hard copy Bluebook.  Thanks.
Ride safe,
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: NinjaBob on October 13, 2017, 05:41:17 PM
So...what does the check mark mean and what does the red hilite mean(and what's by my name)
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: GoVFR on November 07, 2017, 09:21:07 PM



I'm with Andray. My Bluebooks are annotated. Very helpful memory assistant. Keep 'em coming every other year.  :clap:


GoVFR



Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: Mooose on November 26, 2017, 02:55:14 PM
How often is the on-line version updated?
In October the Membership Committee reported more new members than expired members! :trink39:
I think it's been a long time since this has happened.
So, when will the new folks get added to the PDF version of the BB on here?
Title: Re: The Bluebook Discussion thread
Post by: donmoe on November 28, 2017, 11:08:03 AM
How often is the on-line version updated?
In October the Membership Committee reported more new members than expired members! :trink39:
I think it's been a long time since this has happened.
So, when will the new folks get added to the PDF version of the BB on here?
The plan has been to update the BlueBook PDF files periodically, perhaps every 6 months. Thus far that schedule has slipped due to being too busy lately to tackle that project, which can ben quite time-consuming. In early December I'll start work on it and plan to upload new editions before Christmas.

I'm personally gratified that so many members have appreciated the PDF versions.

Don Moe,
MSTA Membership DB Manager

[edited to remove formatting commands and other trash]