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Main Forums => GPS Talk => Topic started by: TN2Wheeler on August 07, 2017, 02:54:28 PM

Title: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: TN2Wheeler on August 07, 2017, 02:54:28 PM

I've used Garmin products for years. I currently own 5. However, as of today, I won't be buying any more. I purchased a GPSMAP 64S about a year ago and registered the City Navigator NT2015 maps I bought with it on myGarmin.com. I installed Basecamp (along with existing Mapsource) and registered/unlocked the maps on my old XP machine. But now I've upgraded to a newer computer - one actually built during this century and Garmin support tells me I cannot register/unlock the maps I paid for on this new machine. Their suggestion was to continue using the XP machine (yeah right) with the 64S or purchase an updated map set. That's not gonna happen. I've been successfully using OSM (free) maps on the 64 from time to time - looks like that's going to become my new standard. It's a shame because I love how the 64S works but I truly hate Garmin's policies.


Your mileage may vary but IMO, Garmin's future is doomed because of their onerous and burdensome licensing requirements and because excellent and constantly improving smartphone-based mapping software and free maps from OSM, Google and other sources will simply dry up that revenue stream for them. I like OSMAND on my Android - it works amazingly well but I also liked having a discreet, rugged, dedicated GPS. Oh well, when they fold up (just like Eastman Kodak who couldn't bring themselves to move on from film-based photography), I say good riddance.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: HawkGTRider on August 07, 2017, 04:18:31 PM
I hate to hear Garmin's customer service has somehow taken a turn for the worse. I'd have never believed that possible.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: OldButNotDead on August 07, 2017, 07:54:27 PM
Jim,
I am in total agreement with you on Garmin.  Their first line of support has been in a power dive for several years.  There was a time when you could talk to people who actually knew how things worked, but those days are gone.  Right now they only units that you can trust to work with BT are Zumo's and they are significantly overpriced.

Just a suggestion, and there are significant limitations to what I'm about to say.  Make your routes in the latest Base Camp version you have.  Export it to gpx.  Read it into the MapSource you use with the 64.  Might work and might be worth a shot.

The marketing boys have dictated significant differences into the build of Nuvi's and Zumo's.   There is no reason for the Zumo to be double and triple the cost of Nuvi's but a Nuvi won't work right with BT to for example a Sena 20.  Lots of stuff like that to force you to buy the high priced spread.  My crystal ball says it won't be long until you will be able to do your map design on on your PC, load your routes into you cell, and pull the data directly from the cell using your Sena or whatever headphone you use.  Goodbye Garmin.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: Kevin on August 07, 2017, 08:15:45 PM
"Garmin support tells me I cannot register/unlock the maps I paid for on this new machine".  This does not sound right. You may have gotten a bad support person.  I suggest to try and use Garmin Express to install the maps to your computer.   
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: Brick on August 07, 2017, 09:21:20 PM
Hmmm... so say my old computer was stolen and I had to buy a new one. So that would mean I would have to pay all over again?!?!



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Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: RIDEMYST on August 08, 2017, 08:24:02 AM
Something doesn't sound right or I'm misunderstanding your post. I have a Garmin 590 with lifetime maps. I update the GPS maps on a regular basis. I also update the maps on my computer as well as on my laptop with no problems. Before you burn the place down with Garmin I'd talk to another rep and as also suggested install Garmin Express and try again. -JEP-


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Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: TN2Wheeler on August 08, 2017, 08:56:53 AM
Something doesn't sound right or I'm misunderstanding your post. I have a Garmin 590 with lifetime maps. I update the GPS maps on a regular basis. I also update the maps on my computer as well as on my laptop with no problems. Before you burn the place down with Garmin I'd talk to another rep and as also suggested install Garmin Express and try again. -JEP-


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I don't have lifetime updates on this mapset. The mapset is unlocked and functional on the gps but i want to use Basecamp so I attempted to install them from disc on the new Windows 10 computer. The files are present and the map manager sees the mapset but reports it is "unauthorized". I was able to install and unlock an old mapset (CNN8) from disc with no drama but the older disc allowed manual input of the 25 character unlock code. However newer versions (i.e. NT2015) require unlocking online and do not provide for manual input of the 25 character unlock code (which I have). Garmin Connect correctly identifies my gps but when I attempt to unlock the mapset on the W10 machine Garmin Connect reports the unlock code has been "consumed". So, according to the agent, this mapset cannot be used on the new computer and I have to purchase an update. That sucks because I PAID for the mapset (on disc). It's not even 2 years old and is plenty accurate for me and I have no interest in purchasing an update.  I've encountered license issues with Garmin before and frankly, like many others,  I'm just tired of their crap. There are other viable FREE options.  And, as I said in my original post, I believe their licensing approach will be their downfall.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: NinjaBob on August 08, 2017, 11:02:00 AM
Jim, have you tried JaVaWa?
"Introduction You can create a backup of your maps with JaVaWa GMTK and restore these (e.g. on another computer) including unlock codes. Re-installing maps is unnecessary.
Migration of your Garmin maps from and old computer to a new one is straightforward with this application.
Do you want to use your maps on a second computer like a laptop or netbook? JaVaWa GMTK takes care of it."


http://www.javawa.nl/gmtk_en.html (http://www.javawa.nl/gmtk_en.html)



Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: OldButNotDead on August 08, 2017, 12:21:40 PM
Hmmm... so say my old computer was stolen and I had to buy a new one. So that would mean I would have to pay all over again?!?!

Both Jims,
I have run Base Camp with Win 7 and 10 plus NT with some issues for two Zumo's and two Nuvi's but they all had lifetime maps and were registered with MyGarmin.  Sometimes I had to use Garmin Express, sometimes Garmin Loader, and Base Camp itself.



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No, your unit and or map subscription is registered with Garmin.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: stevegrab on August 08, 2017, 12:27:22 PM
I guess this makes life time maps well worth their purchase. I know my first GPS a Nuvi had them, and I had stuff installed on both a work computer and at home. My recent Zumo purchase also had LTM designation.

Not sure I'd every be comfortable using my smart phone for GPS on a bike.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: HawkGTRider on August 08, 2017, 12:35:57 PM
I guess this makes life time maps well worth their purchase. I know my first GPS a Nuvi had them, and I had stuff installed on both a work computer and at home. My recent Zumo purchase also had LTM designation.

Not sure I'd every be comfortable using my smart phone for GPS on a bike.
I purchased lifetime maps for several of my old StreetPilot units. A couple of years ago Garmin decided they would no longer support those units, so the lifetime map subscriptions I purchased became, well, non-existent. Even though I paid for the subscriptions, they went away because Garmin wants to sell new units (my opinion).
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: OldButNotDead on August 08, 2017, 12:43:49 PM
Did I say explicitly in my first post that Garmin telephone support totally sucks???  Well it does.  It wasn't that long ago, maybe three or four years ago it was superb.  I would recommend to anyone seeking help from Garmin to send an email.  Less chance of some bozo just hip shooting you an answer and you have a record of the response.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: TN2Wheeler on August 08, 2017, 12:47:08 PM
I guess this makes life time maps well worth their purchase. I know my first GPS a Nuvi had them, and I had stuff installed on both a work computer and at home. My recent Zumo purchase also had LTM designation.

Not sure I'd every be comfortable using my smart phone for GPS on a bike.
Many people purchase a used smartphone for less than $50. I have 3... The GPS/Phone doesn't need cellular service or a working phone number.  You install your GPS application and download offload maps using wifi and never connect to a cell tower.  I use OSMAND (android) but there are apps for iOS too.

When a company's revenue model is heavily dependent on selling a product (i.e. Garmin maps) that someone else is giving away it doesn't bode well for their future. Earlier I used Eastman Kodak, my former employer, as an example. It wasn't that they were unaware of digital photography. In fact, I visited a very state-of-the-art digital photography lab in Rochester in the late-90s. They had all the high-end digital photography stuff of that era. The techies saw the future. However, Kodak executives _decided_ that digital photography was not a threat to film based photography. Kodak's revenue was heavily dependent on selling consumable film and photographic paper. They pretty much gave away their cameras at cost simply to sell more film, paper and related services. Yeah, we all see where that went.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: TN2Wheeler on August 09, 2017, 10:03:47 AM
Hmmm... so say my old computer was stolen and I had to buy a new one. So that would mean I would have to pay all over again?!?!

Both Jims,
I have run Base Camp with Win 7 and 10 plus NT with some issues for two Zumo's and two Nuvi's but they all had lifetime maps and were registered with MyGarmin.  Sometimes I had to use Garmin Express, sometimes Garmin Loader, and Base Camp itself.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No, your unit and or map subscription is registered with Garmin.

And that's exactly why I'm unhappy. Both the GPS unit and the Mapset are registered with Garmin but they refuse to let me move the registered mapset to the new machine. The problem has been resolved through 3rd party software but Garmin was not helpful at all.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: stevegrab on August 09, 2017, 01:57:20 PM
I guess this makes life time maps well worth their purchase. I know my first GPS a Nuvi had them, and I had stuff installed on both a work computer and at home. My recent Zumo purchase also had LTM designation.

Not sure I'd every be comfortable using my smart phone for GPS on a bike.
I purchased lifetime maps for several of my old StreetPilot units. A couple of years ago Garmin decided they would no longer support those units, so the lifetime map subscriptions I purchased became, well, non-existent. Even though I paid for the subscriptions, they went away because Garmin wants to sell new units (my opinion).
Yes I forgot to mention that, but was fully aware of that part of the "lifetime" maps.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: Kenneth Gill on August 09, 2017, 04:29:42 PM
So let's hope that Garmin has people that are also members of MSTA and take the time to share this around the company.
Title: Re: Caveat Emptor re Garmin
Post by: OldButNotDead on August 09, 2017, 09:36:31 PM
Jim,
I went back and reread your original post.  Something is really fishy there.  I have done the equivalent of that several times.  This may have already been said by someone else, but what I had to do was load a clean copy of Base Camp on the new machine.  I had to have my registration up to date in myGarmin so it showed the unit I was updating on it.  Then I loaded Garmin Express which loaded the new maps on both the new computer and the unit. 

I'll swear updates have been different to load on every new unit or modification to map files.  I thought they had it whipped though.  On my last two Zumo's and two Numi's Garmin express detected the unit, found space for the files and put them in the right place to include an SD card.  Don't feel too bad, you should talk to some guys from Australia, Garmin isn't just user unfriendly over there, they are user lethal.